Welcome back to another episode of MedCity Femfwd, a podcast dedicated to discussing breakthroughs and challenges in women’s health. In this episode, we are joined by Abbie Clary, executive director of health at All Health for Cannondesign, an architectural design company.
Clary has collaborated with numerous health systems to design its medical space. She discusses why health care has not been traditionally established around women and why change is needed.
This is a transcript of the AI-generated record of this plot.
Marissa Plescia: Welcome back to another episode of the Medcity Fem forward. I am Marissa Plescia, a reporter for Medcity News. It’s no secret that healthcare is traditionally designed around men, and changes are required to include more women. That's why in this episode we join Abby Clary, the architect and executive director of Canon Design.
Hi Abby. Thank you very much for joining Ford's Med City.
Abbie Clary: Yes, thank you for inviting me. Come here excitedly. Yes of course. Very happy to have you. So maybe just to get started, well, can you tell us something about yourself and your work as an architect in the healthcare field? Yes, so I've been working in the healthcare field for nearly 30 years.
And, you know, I would say I've moved from an architect to an advocate. “Because today as a designer, I'm thinking more about the patient experience, staff experience, to what I haven't considered a long time ago. Well, super focused on projects that can be made. A huge impact. You know, it doesn't have to do with size.
I do work on many very large projects and I think this can give me more flexibility to make this impact. But it has nothing to do with the size of the project, it has to do with what the client wants to do and the people they serve and hopes they want to make an impact from A from an experience perspective.
Marisa: It's really fun. Well, so I have to solve this problem. In the field of women’s health care, do you think the way you build medical spaces for women is really wrong?
Abi: Well, I think historically, women are excluded from all kinds of places. Not only in the healthcare field, but you know, um, research and um, design processes and medical trials.
Like all these things, it is mainly focused on men and men. So when we design, when we design spaces historically, we actually get along with them. The position of men is also considered. Well, I'll give you a few examples. There are examples in the product. There are, for example, when I think about design, I'm not only thinking about architecture.
There are products in the products, and there are products in space. So an example is like an artificial buttock. They are anatomically one size fits the male body. They, well, failed. Therefore, it is often common among women. Just like there is a product designed like this. I also like CPR mannequins, their design is to design the male anatomy again, which makes people hesitate when women who need CPR, you know, either do it or do it correctly.
Well, another example is that women are. The baby should be in a squat position, but we have set up in the room in the lithotomy position, lying on our backs for the convenience of the doctor, and historically, long ago, this was mostly men. So you can see all kinds of things that are designed by us, not our ideas, you know, and our functions, our feelings, uh, even our emotional needs.
Marisa: Yes. Yes. Really said. Well, maybe you, you talk about this, but can you go into more detail, um, um, um, um, will it really affect women's health?
Abi: Yes, so, well, there is a lot of research on design and health in general. It turns out that it is like natural perspective and ability to choose.
The ability to have privacy helps women not be fired. “Because we are ours in history, our pain or remarks about what is happening have been dismissed historically. I think you will say that there are people who have lost their trust. So if women are placed in spaces where there is not enough privacy or UM, they are physically uncomfortable, or, you know, they always feel invisible. This can lead to loss of trust, which can lead to women not seeking attention. Obviously, this leads to greater health, er, differences and bad results.
Marisa: Yes, absolutely. Well, so you are using numerous health systems like the University of Chicago Fred Hutch to redesign its space. Can you tell us more about some of the work these health systems do?
Abi: What’s really great about these health systems is their willingness to think about experiences in different ways. So when we design AN we call it an experience strategy, so when we design an experience strategy we do that to inform the built environment because otherwise I'm building or designing my space, I think I know what you need, which is obviously something we're trying to undo.
So when we design experience. We think about the built environment, think about operations, care models, you know, workflow, this type of thing. We also have to study the culture of our clients, because that is a big part of the experience. Then there is facilitating technology. So these clients you mentioned are willing to study this experience, to be close to and become part of the design as a whole.
Then make the solution happen. So, for example, on Memorial Sloan Kettering, we are designing their new cancer pavilion, and we have done a deep dive into five different languages, their patients have the patients they want, the patients they don’t want to go there with their staff. We learned a lot about what it means.
For example, becoming a cancer patient. So these clients let us do this in-depth study so that we can synthesize it into experiences relevant to their communities. That's what I want to be about women's health, and it's really because women's voices are more in the design process so that we can synthesize this and then develop experiences that are totally relevant to them and us and us, I should say again, rather than a size.
Marisa: Yes. When you use these health systems, are you doing any specific women's health programs for them, or are you just embedded in everything you do for these health systems?
Abi: Well, I mean, we do have specific programs for women, like we are in Ohio Ohio, Ohio Health in Columbus, Ohio, and we are opening a women's hospital.
This is because it actually focuses on the continuum of care. Another thing you know is that women's health is usually focused on reproduction. That's it. Therefore, our hospitals do focus on delivery and babies. We have something beyond babies, right? So, well, it’s very unusual for Ohio Women’s Hospital to focus on the day you enter menopause and everything that happens in between.
So it's a very exciting project because, and they've also done, well, patient research, well, looking at the space that empowers, many people think it's more than just like. Pink and like curves. Soft colors, right? I mean, not all women do this. You know, it's about what that woman needs in particular.
Therefore, consider these spaces as well as feedback.
Marisa: Yes. Really glad you call it um, it's more than just the importance of reproduction, so it's so good. Yes. Well, yes. Yes. So, depending on the major, what are the designs different, whether it is mental health, hospitals, public health, etc.?
Abi: Yes. So the concept is the same, right? I mean, it's creating relevant human-centered spaces. So, this is the same, similar process, but the results may vary. Mental health, sometimes about safety, not intimidation. It's about reducing cancer anxiety, it's about high-tech.
Add hope and inspiration, and researching the design of survival, not for reaction, uh, I think you would say we are looking at chronic, not you know, this situation, like women's health, like I said, dignity, empowerment, empowerment, and empowerment to the whole person, and the whole person and the whole person, not just us and not just the copy.
Marisa: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. It's easy to say. Well, well, I only have one last question to ask you. You know, what is your biggest advice for how healthcare organizations can better design for women?
Abi: I think my biggest suggestion is probably number one. Sorry, I may have a few. But first of all, we need to really understand what experience is correct?
Not only do we think efficiency means good experience. “Because there are a lot of hospitals and health agencies think, oh, we're in and out. That was a great experience. There is still a lot of experience. Then I think I'll say the second one is learning. You think you know and listen deeply about the communities you serve so that you can be unbiased and hear what these women actually need, and the ability to empower them in their own health to improve outcomes.
“Because if you don't study and then re-learn and listen, you still have unconscious bias, which is something we all are working on. Generally speaking. So this will be my second suggestion.
Marisa: Yes. Yes. So important. Great advice there. Well, Abby, it's a really interesting conversation. Thank you very much for joining Medcity femfwd.
Abi: Yes, thank you very much for having me. I really like it.
